#22 [url]

Oct 5 06 1:01 PM

This is an obvious attempt to spam this forum. Johnnybob should be clearly banned for continuous disregard to everyone on this board. He is nothing better than the spammers who post porn on this site.

The moderators continuous allowance of this nonsense and borderline freak show put on by JB is unreal.

What kind of place is this?

Quote    Reply   

#23 [url]

Oct 5 06 1:02 PM

This is an obvious attempt to spam this forum. Johnnybob should be clearly banned for continuous disregard to everyone on this board. He is nothing better than the spammers who post porn on this site.

The moderators continuous allowance of this nonsense and borderline freak show put on by JB is unreal.

What kind of place is this?

Quote    Reply   

#24 [url]

Oct 5 06 7:00 PM

Natural fires e good - god put them here to remove the undergrowth in forests and allow for new growth in furtile soil created from the mulch and burning. This keeps the canopy clear for new trees.

smoke is good. fire - good.

Jb's opinion on this matter means absolutely nothing to me -

Patriot - I'm almost ashamed of you for getting dragged into his forum and not standing up as the man I know you are.

Come on man - let's get rid of this wierdo.

Quote    Reply   

#25 [url]

Oct 6 06 12:30 AM

What ever happened to constructive and to-the-point debate?

Come on guys, can't we keep things on topic?

larrybobhelicop, you should have kept off the threads like you said you were going to be. I don't always agree with JB's posts, and you don't either. But let's not get into name-calling!

The beatings will continue until morale improves!
Sic vis pacem, para bellum.

Quote    Reply   

#26 [url]

Oct 6 06 7:32 AM

JB,

Great article! Thank you for taking the time to find it, reformat it, and then post it for our reading.

One important thing to point out in the article is the following and how it applies to the rural community of Jefferson county.

"There certainly is a role for helicopters in EMS, but we have them in the wrong places. The majority of the fleet is parked atop hospitals in urban centers where ground transport takes only minutes. They need to be positioned where they will benefit the people who need them the most—those who live in rural settings. That is, they need to be closest to the hospitals and trauma scenes where they can potentially make a difference. The literature certainly supports the role of helicopter transport of critical patients in the rural setting."

In reading the above, one has to admit that Mt. Vernon is not an urban center, but very rural. We have discussed, in this and other forums, the large numbers of automobile accidents throughout Jefferson County. Sometimes the only viable alternative to transporting a patient is with a helicopter.

However, as the article points out, too often is a helicopter summoned when it is not necessary. Therein lies the problem of exacerbating the flight risk to all concerned.

Quite possibly, helicopter life-flights are not necessary in large urban areas where trauma centers are abundant. But in rural communities, everyone, including yourself, should be happy they are available.

Again, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule.

Quote    Reply   

#28 [url]

Oct 7 06 7:42 PM

Patriot wrote:
I don't know about the rest of you but I really believe that Atvar and JBdady are one in the same.


Not even in the same state.

Not only that, but I am sober, educated, half-breed, republican, Mason, service-connected disabled veteran.

I was just trying to get a discussion going with JB and try some logic and rationale.

I was also trying some comparative analysis on JB.

He has been bitching about ending the war because we have averaged 900 deaths per year since it began, but he doesn't seem to care one iota about the 1,500,000 Americans whom have suffered painful deaths from the use of tobacco during the same period. Or the 135,000 people whom have perished in vehicular accidents in the same 3 years.

He, erroneously, expends enormous amounts of energy focusing on ending the war on terrorists.

Quote    Reply   

#29 [url]

Oct 7 06 8:00 PM

Atvar wrote:
JB,

Great article! Thank you for taking the time to find it, reformat it, and then post it for our reading.

One important thing to point out in the article is the following and how it applies to the rural community of Jefferson county.

"There certainly is a role for helicopters in EMS, but we have them in the wrong places. The majority of the fleet is parked atop hospitals in urban centers where ground transport takes only minutes. They need to be positioned where they will benefit the people who need them the most—those who live in rural settings. That is, they need to be closest to the hospitals and trauma scenes where they can potentially make a difference. The literature certainly supports the role of helicopter transport of critical patients in the rural setting."

In reading the above, one has to admit that Mt. Vernon is not an urban center, but very rural. We have discussed, in this and other forums, the large numbers of automobile accidents throughout Jefferson County. Sometimes the only viable alternative to transporting a patient is with a helicopter.

However, as the article points out, too often is a helicopter summoned when it is not necessary. Therein lies the problem of exacerbating the flight risk to all concerned.

Quite possibly, helicopter life-flights are not necessary in large urban areas where trauma centers are abundant. But in rural communities, everyone, including yourself, should be happy they are available.

Again, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule.


Very well said Atvar! I completely agree with you on this one! Many of the helicopter flights out of Mt. Vernon are not simple transfers that could be done with an ambulance. MOST are either traumas flown straight from a scene to Good Sam or traumas flown OUT of Good Sam to a Level 1 trauma center. Patients flown in directly from the scene of occurence (nine times out of ten a vehicle wreck) are flown from VERY rural areas. It can take 30-45 minutes to get to parts of Jefferson County in an ambulance! That's just Jefferson county. What about surrounding counties that are looking at longer times than that to get here! A helicopter can get to the hospital MUCH quicker than that (less than 10 minutes MAX)

Do I have written facts on this that I can present to crowd like JB? No..that would be a severe violation of patient confidentiality. All I have is the personal experiences I have had with these situations.

Quote    Reply   

#30 [url]

Oct 8 06 9:50 AM

Atvar, JBdaddy will never change his opinion(s). Compulsively he believes he is completely in the right, the rest of the world is wrong. We should establish a no fly, no burn, no misqueto, no boom box, no art, no dust, no cussing, no sex, no alcohol, no guns zone around his house and never expect him to vote.

If all this came true and JBdaddy lived in his own little bubble where the world did not infringe on him he would gripe and complain just the same about something else he couldn't control.

He is our modern day Don Quixto (excuse the spelling)... dreaming up incredible windmills to make into impossible enemies.

The only difference is Don actually DID something.

The meek shall inhert the gulag.

Quote    Reply   

#31 [url]

Oct 8 06 12:22 PM

JohnnyBob wrote:


In my opinion there is no justification sufficient to allow that to happen on a regular daily basis, usually many times per day. We are entitled to reasonable security, peace and quiet, in our homes and peaceful neighborhoods. There's something very wrong with a system which allows that to happen.


Ok JB, you are right, helicopters are loud! I admit that! No one is denying that! However the statement you made above is one the most selfish and ignorant statements I have heard from almost anyone on here. Saving a life is more than enough justification to momentarily interupting your peace and quiet. That's my opinion, and most sane peoples opinions. YOUR MILD INCONVENIENCE IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS THE LIVES OF OTHERS. Saving lives is the most important thing. Complain all you want, but that will never change. Obviously you will never be able to put the lives of others ahead of your own personal agenda.

I've read your research material saying that helicopters don't save lives. I don't care. I've seen first hand MANY times that helicopters DO save lives. I've personally loaded more people into helicopters that would have died than I can remember. I personally know people that are alive today because of the hard work the med-evac medics, nurses and pilots do. Some good friends of mine are those pilots, medics, and nurses.

You say everyone else ignores the topic, well you are ignoring the topic! HUMAN LIVES ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAT HUMAN INCONVENIENCE. Sorry but that's just my humane opinion.

Quote    Reply   

#32 [url]

Oct 9 06 8:34 AM

[quote="JohnnyBob"][quote="mvn_citizen"]

JohnnyBob wrote:



Or it could partly be a lack of sympathy for the negative stereotyped person who is bothered by noise. I notice this among the younger generation, some of whom delight in torturing older people with their roaming boom boxes in cars. The negative stereotype of someone bothered by noise is of a nervous nelly, jumping at sight of their own shadow, phobic and introverted, a recluse, and borderline (if not wholly) insane. I am here to tell you that is incorrect. Perfectly normal people are adversely affected by noise pollution and the stress which it causes. It is a serious matter which greatly harms our environment and daily lives - all of us, even you. Reasonable daily peace and quiet in our homes and residential neighborhoods is essential for leading a happy, healthy life. That has been seriously damaged by these low-flying helicopters in Mt Vernon.


Or it could be a lack of your sympathy for the lives that are saved on a daily basis by helicopters. I am probably in the "younger generation" that you refer to. However I spend my time helping people, younger and old, rather than torturing them with noise. While I may not understand noise pollution to the extent you are claiming to understand it, I DO understand the medical side effects of it. What I am doubting is how bad the noise pollution really is. I'm sure you can hear the helicopters..but 100 dB???C'mon now, that's a slight exaggeration is it not?

JB, our opinions are obviously the two polar opposites on this issue. I am assuming that most people are somewhere in between you and I. Thankfully, med-evac helicopters are going nowhere because of noise pollution, so as long as lives are still being saved, its all good to me

Quote    Reply   

#33 [url]

Oct 9 06 9:31 AM

I will agree that most helicopters are loud. I have to wear a headset to protect my hearing whenever I am on most of them. But I also wear a headset on the Piper Cherokee my wife flies as it is loud, also.

However, not all helicopters are loud. Some are almost silent. You only know they are above you when you feel the wind from them. There are more blades and they are longer and designed to not transvers the speed of sound causing the small sonic boom that you hear.

Too bad those cost so much more than the loud ones.

JB, I was awakened a few nights ago at 3 am by one of those really loud ones landing about a 1/4 mile from my home. The thing hoovered over my house for a few minutes while the police set up a landing zone. They were picking up an accident victim. About 15 minutes later, it went airborne and headed to a trauma center. Even though our local hospital is only a couple of miles from the accident scene, the individual had to be flown to a trauma-1 center to save their life. It took me awhile to get back to sleep.

I would hate to live in "helicopter alley" like you do. I'd probably move to a quieter place.

Oh yeah. I hate the cars that have those really loud and deep boom systems. Some of them actually rattle my chest. I wonder what it does to the kid's (who is driving it) ears.

Quote    Reply   

#34 [url]

Oct 9 06 2:22 PM

there is a solution

Put adequate mufflers on the helicopter engines and put a noise limit law in place and enforce it. For example, no greater than 115 decibels within 200 feet of the helicopter at take-off or landing. Landings/take-offs should be done in a manner to reduce noise to a minimum for local residents. The city could place decibel meters (with beacon ID's to identify the offender) around the trouble areas and log violations and collect new revenue if they don't comply.

Better yet, convince the medivac operators to get more neighborhood friendly and enact their own measures to reduce noise.

I am not biased one way or the other regarding this topic. But, I would not want to live in JohnnyBobs's neighborhood with all that noise crap. Nor is it likely he would want to live in my "hood" and put up with all the boomboxes day and night. Which, btw, we already have laws on the books for but they're seldom enforced.

Quote    Reply   

#35 [url]

Oct 9 06 6:33 PM

Actually I believe that we have some REAL choices in the present elections. In two years we will vote to elect a person that may or may not end the war in Iraq, cut or raise taxes, appoint members to the Supreme Court, members who will make decisions on abortion, gun control, immigration and education issues. This year locally we will choose who will run the county offices for 4 more years. They will be resposible for the county's law enforcement and tax collection. State wide we will choose our governor and congressional representative. These also will detrmine how our money is spent. From reading these forums I have an idea of what concerns you, hellicopters and leaf burning for the most part. However if you would get a firm committment from one or more candidates then maybe your concerns could be addressed. I also notice your objection to the war in Iraq. The election of our senators and represenatives plus the president will have lasting impact on deciding the outcome of this. So I contend that there are definately some REAL issues at stake. If I vote but some of my desires still aren't met, I, at least, have bitching rights. But if I sit at home, complain that 1 vote won't matter and refuse to vote then I get what I deserve.

When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that the original plan was to drain the swamp.

Quote    Reply   

#36 [url]

Oct 10 06 9:45 AM

Re: there is a solution

rocko_mtv wrote:
Put adequate mufflers on the helicopter engines and put a noise limit law in place and enforce it. For example, no greater than 115 decibels within 200 feet of the helicopter at take-off or landing. Landings/take-offs should be done in a manner to reduce noise to a minimum for local residents. The city could place decibel meters (with beacon ID's to identify the offender) around the trouble areas and log violations and collect new revenue if they don't comply.

Better yet, convince the medivac operators to get more neighborhood friendly and enact their own measures to reduce noise.

I am not biased one way or the other regarding this topic. But, I would not want to live in JohnnyBobs's neighborhood with all that noise crap. Nor is it likely he would want to live in my "hood" and put up with all the boomboxes day and night. Which, btw, we already have laws on the books for but they're seldom enforced.


Most of the noise from a helicopter is produced from the blades, not the engine, so I don't think a muffler would solve anything serious. The problem with the law is that the hospital is in the middle of a residential neighborhood, making it impossible for them to adjust their flight patterns to avoid the problem. If the new hospital is built as planned, that will solve MOST problems! The helicopters will fly south of Veterans Memorial Dr, rather than over a heavily populated areas. Plans are in the works JB..can you hold on that long?

Quote    Reply   

#37 [url]

Oct 10 06 10:03 AM

Re: there is a solution

mvn_citizen wrote:

Most of the noise from a helicopter is produced from the blades, not the engine, so I don't think a muffler would solve anything serious.


You are correct. In an earlier posting of mine, I explained that the noise is actually the tips of the blades creating sonic booms. Not only that, but you have the Doppler effect working in conjunction with the sonic booms.

Nearly all helicopters are powered by "jet" engines. Those are very hard to put mufflers on. The fan jets are probably the least noise makers.

Our very quiet Special Operations helicopters use noise abatement methods on the engines and they have a large many-bladed prop that spins slower but has more lift. It is nearly silent, but this technology costs a bundle. Too much for our "life-flight" companies to buy.

Quote    Reply   

#38 [url]

Oct 10 06 2:19 PM

I wish I had solid dates JB, but I just don't. And I would rather not name the people that I have discussed the new hospital with (anonymity is a great thing). I guess you will just have to believe it when you see it, which I respect.

Quote    Reply   

#39 [url]

Oct 10 06 2:29 PM

Re: there is a solution

JohnnyBob wrote:
I don't know how many times I've responded to that rumor. It is false in my estimation. They will never build a hospital out there. It is only propaganda they use to try to defray complaints about the noise at their 12th Street location. They tell everyone that same falsehood, including the FAA investigator who came here a few years ago to investigate my noise complaints. I first heard it back in 2000 from one of the airport board members, that's 6 years ago. Believe me, it will never happen. If you have any solid evidence to the contrary, and a firm date, I'm all ears! Yes, in that case, I would take heart! Otherwise it would just be another source of depression about the situation.


Your “estimation” is wrong. The land is purchased. The architects for the new hospital have been flying in to Mt. Vernon on a regular basis for the last two years. The FAA investigator was flown over the new hospital site twice.

Since you mentioned the FAA investigator, tell us his response to your noise complaint.

I know what it was.

"It pays to be a member of EAA chapter 1155"

Quote    Reply   

#40 [url]

Oct 10 06 2:30 PM

mvn_citizen wrote:
I wish I had solid dates JB, but I just don't. And I would rather not name the people that I have discussed the new hospital with (anonymity is a great thing). I guess you will just have to believe it when you see it, which I respect.


It ain't that big a secret. Call the Hospital Administrator.

"It pays to be a member of EAA chapter 1155"

Quote    Reply   
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help